I am a geek at heart, a lover of data, analytics, measurement, and ability to provide and measure real return on investment. When Klout launched I was one of their first fans. It was exciting to see something that could possibly help us finally begin to start measuring and justifying the hours we spent on the social networks.
Many had high hopes for Klout. We believed their agenda was pure and that their top goal was to build a credible and robust influence measurement system. We have several large clients in the travel and leisure niche that we were considering Klout as a potential source for connecting with influencers.
If you have been any part of the active social ecosystem the past few weeks it's hard to miss the noise about the Klout algorithm changes and the backlash that followed.
After much research, conversation and analysis I have decided to delete my Klout profile. Many people have asked me why via Twitter. It's too much to answer via 140 characters so it was time for a blog post.
Important Note: The purpose of this post is to provide the reasons I deleted my Klout profile. It is NOT to bash Klout, pick fights or cause overall negativity. I am confident in my decision and simply want to educate those who are asking me why. You don't have to agree with me, you don't have to like my decision. I encourage you to share your opinions as well.
I owe it to my followers, colleagues and clients. I have clients who have asked us to be accountable to meeting goals on increasing Klout scores. Given this, I have no choice but to share with them (and you) my honest opinion on how much I think their Klout scores matter in regard to their success at becoming and evolving as a social business.
I wish the employees of Klout the best. I hope they are able to help Klout mitigate the risks it has created for itself. There is still a large gap in the social ecosystem for social influence measurement.
Of course Klout could still do an about face and leverage their success to date to win back the hearts and tweet streams of those they've lost and/or will lose over the coming months. However, my belief is they have a long way to go. Would I ever go back to Klout should they work out their issues? They will have to earn my trust again, but yes, it could happen.
For more insight into my overall thoughts on social influence measurement including how I believe it's causing some to behave like puppets I suggest you check out this post prior to reading and/or commenting on this article. It will give you more insight into my thoughts and opinions overall. This post is intended to only share specifically why I am deleting my Klout profile. “Stop the Social Puppetry for Klout & Other Influence Metrics”
1. Privacy Issues
Klout believes that “everyone has Klout.” Even if you don't create a Klout profile they might just create one for you. They have implemented an “opt-in to opt-out” model. In order to opt-out of Klout you must first opt-in which means you have to connect a profile or else send them a note to delete. Neither option for deletion is obvious or easy to find on their website for a novice user who doesn't eat, sleep and breath tweets and K+'s all day like we do.
They created Klout profiles for minors who never signed up for Klout. Yes, minors as in kids under the age of 18. There are numerous reports of children being exploited on Klout with profiles that were created from data scrapes via the Facebook API. This happened for Facebook profiles that were set to private or public. There are profiles of minors who were being listed as “influential” on the Klout website because they had liked or commented on a post of someone who actually had a Klout profile. My understanding is even minors with private accounts were being pulled into Klout because they commented on a public post. Does Facebook need to take responsibility here as well? Absolutely. However, for this specific conversation and post we are talking specifically about Klout.
I am connected to many minors in our local community. I refuse to be the medium that exploits minors who have connected to me on Facebook in trust because I have a Klout profile.
Imagine the teen girls you know who snap a photo of the Saturday night slumber party. One of them uploads the photo to Facebook and assigns it as her profile photo. Then come Monday morning the same girl has a profile plastered on Klout with the photo of her and her two best friends in their jammies because Klout decided she is a top influencer of someone with a Klout profile!
Danny Brown summarizes some of the concerns on the Facebook scraping and Klout profiles of minors in this post: “Is Klout Using our Family to Violate our Privacy?”
2. They tricked me into connecting networks that aren't included in scoring algorithm
I learned today that although Klout states they integrate with 13 networks, the truth is only 4 actually impact your score (Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and FourSquare). Reading their latest post and comment stream on “Understanding the Klout Score Part 1” I was shocked to discover that even though they announced these networks in two blog posts they forgot to mention that the scores are not included. “Measuring Klout on 10 Networks” “Google+ Now Has Klout” I am yet to find anywhere on their blog or website where it states such.
The question was asked by someone on their blog this evening. Klout replied with “you're right, we haven't done a good job of making it very clear which networks are simply connected and which are part of the score.” However, earlier today in this post on NY Times “Are You a V.I.P.? Check Your Klout Score” Klout's CEO, Joe Fernandez is quoted stating “We analyze data from 13 different online networks and take into account reactions to a person’s content.”
So which is it Klout? Are all 13 online networks analyzed and taken into account of new algorithm? Or is it as stated via your blog comments that it's only Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIN and Foursquare?
3. They ignored the people who helped build them & wanted them to succeed
They launched a new algorithm late last month. They claimed transparency as a key feature of the new launch and algorithm. If you call transparency a single chart on their blog then you can believe the hype. Immediately after the launch they seem to have disappeared into a dark K+ tunnel. They finally came out of hiding this week with a blog post trying to offer some answers.
This I think is their biggest mistake second only to the privacy issues. If there are issues with the algorithm then come forward. You hide and don't respond, you lose trust. You lose my trust, you lose me.
Myself and many others sent numerous messages via the Klout contact forms, emails and tweets trying to get answers to some key questions. I wanted to help them. I wanted them to take responsibility for errors. Their answers were weak at best. They avoided 75% of my questions. Their responses were a shame to what started out as a great company with great opportunity to provide value to an audience and ecosystem who needed them and wanted them to succeed.
I requested to have my profile deleted five days ago. I sent an email, replied to @MeganBerry on blog comments, sent tweets, submitted the delete profile form on the Klout website. As of this afternoon my Klout profile was still active.
4. Conflicting agendas
There is nothing wrong with building a business to make money. I hope to retire with a nice fat payday at some point in the future from the sale of my own company. It is not bad Klout wants to make money. It is not bad Klout wants to IPO.
My concern is what appears to be conflicting agendas. On one hand they are repeatedly quoted stating “we empower the individual”. They claim to be the standard in influence measurement. However, on the other hand they are are using that same measurement and collection of our data to make money from day one, while they are still in beta. It's obvious they have issues with the algorithm. It's obvious their system is still in beta. However, that doesn't stop them from promoting it as a standard for influence measurement. It doesn't stop them from charging brands upwards of $25k just to be part of a perks program. I think their percieved credibility would be exponentially higher would they have first focused on getting the measurement correct.
Regardless if we like or believe it or not we are the product of Klout, not the client. Their clients are the ones who are writing the checks. They write the checks for the products which are you and me. Because you have your social networks connected to Klout, because you give K+'s like a puppet, you retweet and talk to influencers so you can raise your Klout score. No, you may not personally do it this way, but many are.
5. A Klout score is not the same as a Google Page Rank or a credit score.
I have seen people compare the Klout measurement to credit scores. This is an apples to oranges comparison. Credit scores are governed and consumers are protected by the Fair Credit Reporting Act. The credit companies don't publish a score publicly without your permission. The credit companies don't create a score for you before they have accurate information such as your social security number, address etc. The credit companies publish content explaining your rights, privacy policies that don't change overnight because of a Twitter backlash. Yes, there is still some unknown black smoke with credit scoring algorithms but it is not the same as Klout.
As for the Google page rank, I have seen @MeganBerry from Klout respond on numerous posts stating Klout is similar to the Google page rank for websites. I disagree. We choose to have our websites public. We choose what images appear, what content is live. With Klout we don't choose to have a score. Unless you opt-in to opt out you may just have a score and don't know it!
6. Unexplained inaccuracies and wackiness in algorithm
There are too many issues to list them all on this post. Below are a few of the many wacky data results that I witnessed with my own personal account and Klout was unable to explain.
a. I was retweeted by @Alyssa_Milano with 1.8 million followers. Within a couple hours of her sending the retweet I had over 950 retweets. You'd think this would possibly increase my score? Wrong, from this day forward my score continuously dropped. When I asked Klout the reason they said I must not be getting engagement from as many influential followers as I did before.
b. Removal of 7 networks did not change my Klout score. As soon as I heard of the privacy issues after the algorithm change I removed 7 of the social networks I had connected. Surprisingly this had zero impact to my score. Klout also admitted in their latest post that up to now they focused on your top network as the primary network influencing your score. Also as per number 2 above I now know that only 4 of the social networks actually impact our scores versus the 13 I was falsely led to believe.
c. They had not pulled my Facebook data in almost 60 days. According to Facebook they had not requested my data via the API since late August. Yet, when I had contacted them after the Alyssa Milano retweet noted above, they were confident that the score was accurate. How can a score be accurate when data is not pulled from a key network such as Facebook for 60 days? When they replied to my email on this question they didn't answer the question. They instead answered stating I had the Facebook profile removed from Klout. Yes, by the time they replied I did because of the privacy issues. However, they never addressed the question as to why the data hadn't been accessed in almost 60 days. I immediately sent a reply email asking for clarification and never received a response.
d. Immediately after the algorithm change the people I influenced changed to “un-influencers.” Almost all of them had Klout scores of 12 or less. I am mentioned and retweeted 100-200+ times per day by new and good friends I engage with regularly. I don't believe that these spam accounts are the top folks who I influence.
e. There were 3 people listed as influencers who appeared to be spam accounts with almost identical stats. Not only did they have the exact same number of followers, following but the most shocking was that they had only sent two tweets ever. What's even worse is all three accounts had send the same two tweets. One of them just so happened to be a retweet of one of my tweets. It took numerous emails and questions to Klout to get an answer on this. When they finally did respond they stated I must have been affected by a temporary “glitch.” For approximately one day the people I influenced changed to real people with real Klout scores. However, within a day it was back to a list of spammers with scores in the teens.
f. My score continued to drop this week even after I removed all 8 social networks. I removed 7 of the social networks as soon as I found out about the privacy issues. This left Twitter as the only connected network. However, even after I removed Twitter from Klout as well as revoked access to Klout via my Twitter profile my score continued to drop. How can this be? Either they are publishing a declining score based upon no new data or they are pulling my data from somewhere without my approval. This has privacy issues written all over it.
7. It causes confusion for my clients.
Although if it wasn't for the privacy issues, part of me would like to keep my Klout score active so I can stay up to date on how it changes, integration with other networks, etc. However, should I choose to do this it would cause confusion and questions for my clients. If my recommendation to them is that Klout is not a valid measurement for infleunce and that they should not waste time on it, it does not line up well with me keeping the Klout score active. They will obviously question why I tell them to do one thing yet I do the opposite.
In all honesty I have clients who have much better things to do than to spend a moment worrying about their Klout score. They are hiring our agency to help them become a social business. They expect results and they expect us to direct them on how to best spend their time to get there. At this time I can't ethically tell them that they should give a second look to their Klout score as a credible source of influence measurement.
8. Because I want to.
Bottom line I don't have to have a reason to delete my Klout score. I don't trust their motives, their actions and now based on most recent learnings today am having a hard time trusting their word.
I have better things to do than worry about my Klout score. My clients and I are building real businesses that generate real revenue. None of us are or will ever be defined by a score from any vendor.
Your Turn
What are your thoughts?
Additional Resources & Opinions:
Is Klout Using our Family to Violate our Privacy? — Danny Brown
Understanding the Klout Score Part 1 — Klout
Privacy Fail: Klout Has Gone Too Far – Tonia Ries
When Sites Drag the Unwitting Across the Web — The New York Times via Somina Sengupta
Klout Score Fail – Inc.com via Curt Finch & Renee Oricchio
My Klout Experiment & the Disturbing Results — Robert Caruso
Klouts Other Major Fail: Violating Historical Integrity / Accuracy — Dan York
Are You a V.I.P.? Check Your Klout Score — NY Times
Why I Disabled My Klout Account — Robert Dempsey
Delete Your Klout Profile Now — Social Media today via Rohn Jay Miller
Exposed Klout Scores Still Garbage After All These Days — Social Media Today via Hollis Tibbets
Lies, Damned Lies & Klout Lies — Social Media Today via Hollis Tibbets
Klout’s Scoring Changes Incite a Riot of Complaints – The Next Web
17 Alternatives to Klout – Read Write Web
Your Klout Score Probably Just Dropped, Do You Care? – Read Write Web
Is Klout on the Way Out? – Jure Klepic
Stop the Social Puppetry for Klout & Other Influence Metrics — Pam Moore
Video: CEO Wants Klout: Days of Our Social Business — Pam Moore
@AskAaronLee @PamMktgNut @Klout I think I can guess ;)
@MichaelGalvin01 For some reason, the link drew a blank, so I went to her twitter page & RT’d. I have also dumped Klout.
Excellent post, thanks for sharing that. I never did get into Klout, All this talk of scores, likes, fans, followers, I just want to engage and share meaningful content, hard to do anymore…..
@BloggingPainter I agree. Don’t worry about the score. Focus on the people, the real conversation and the numbers that matter will come.
@PamMktgNut@BloggingPainter Interesting that @klout score is 86.
@PamMktgNut Because it’s utter bollocks?
Excellent!
Well-written post, easily understandable points.
I too noticed several things you mention above – spam accounts & their listing as “influencers.” Though, I appreciate your sharing details I was not aware of — related with Facebook and privacy issues.
You make another point that DOES concern me: Either they are evaluating scores based on outdated data, or they are pulling data from somewhere without approval. Based on the fact that everyone has a profile – regardless of whether or not they signed up for one – I’m tempted to believe the latter.
I have not deleted my profile. But I have deleted proof of my interaction. No badge on my site!
You’ve given me something to think about. I don’t enjoy being the product of an entity that seems wreckless and irresponsible.
Thank you,
~Keri
@connectyou Yes, the issues with privacy and data access are most concerning. They haven’t seemed to have a clear answer on exactly how the profiles are created and maintained when not given access. Although I requested that my Klout profile be deleted earlier this week it is still appearing in feeds such as Chrome plug-in. It wend down a point after I unplugged Twitter. So basically I have no network attached, have requested it be deleted, have been told it was deleted but I still have a score of 59? As with any biz communication is key. I think the struggle for them is their user base and audience has questions regarding privacy and they aren’t responding clearly. They may have good intentions and are just too slammed to deal with the issues or manage the PR issues appropriately. Or it could be they are scurrying to figure out an answer. Or even worse it could be they don’t care and are putting us all on “ignore.” When biz’s choose not to communicate and answer questions then people will do the research and start to answer them for you. Obviously would be much better coming from the source ;)
Hi Pam, I recently started following you on Twitter (shame on me for being late to the “marketing nut” game :) and I really enjoy your straight forward and insightful point of view. Love your article on Klout. As an FYI, I’m good friends with dannybrown and tonia_ries and have been following the Klout Kerfuffle with much interest. I did not know that Klout was not pulling information from many of the accounts that they SAID they were. That’s just incredible to me. Also I think it was unconscionable for Joe Fernandez to be “on vacation” when the privacy issue with minors was identified and Megan Berry was left to hold the bag. Now, I know this may sound a little bit crazy – but – in a way I’m likening the departure of REAL high power influencers from Klout to what the 99% is trying to achieve. Because of the power given to Klout (in part by the companies that are assigning bonuses and picking agencies based on Klout scores (HUH?) that they felt empowered to essentially do what they wanted to with no repercussions. But if the trend continues with high profile influencers leaving Klout (okay, I guess the social media 1% is more accurate :) how can it not impact the cache of their brand? I think it will be a very interesting case study. Also, I love the non-emotional way in which you broached this post. Thanks! Anne
@cerosilva I thought their new algorithm is accurate and works. But that is not the case. Yes. #Klout sucks bigtime now.
@GuttuG I had joined initially but felt something was wonky after some time.
@cerosilva Same here. After a month, I lost interest in #klout Didn’t make any sense on score calculation.
Damn, Pam, but this is one hell of an overview – kudos!
I saw that Social Media Today post, and @JoeFernandez response to it, where he openly stated that they only measure 4 networks. Despite @MeganBerry saying they measure 13 on a recent BlogTalkRadio panel, and all the posturing on the Klout site about their extra channels.
Wonder how channel partners feel, now knowing that the service they pay a lot of money for is actually only measuring a third of what they’re paying for…
Hey, Pam, how do I delete my Klout profile? I’ve tried a couple times, and your brilliant article makes me want to try again. Thanks for the great read. @PamMktgNut
@janettekotichas In reading the comments, I saw your request for help. Since I recently deleted mine, I know that it is a challenge to figure out where to do it on some of the platforms. Here is a step-by-step guide from Jure Klepic. So as to not drop a link in Pam’s comment section, I separated the .com from his name. Simply close the space and you are good to go.
http://jureklepic .com/2011/10/31/how-to-get-your-profile-and-data-completely-disconnected-from-klout/
This is genius. Thank you Pam for every single word you’ve written here–you’ve answered the burning questions I’ve had about Klout. Up until now, all I had was an intuitive feeling that something was “amiss” in Kloutville. The one point that stood out for me was how they’ve ignored those that helped them grow their business. They do have a chance, like you said, to redeem themselves (like Gap did with their logo fiasco), but it’s looking like that’s unlikely. Awesome post my dear!
Great post Pam. There is a great deal of food for thought here. Uncovering some of the inconsistencies that you have is an eye opener.
I’m not willing to delete my account…yet…but, I have never put a lot of weight into the system to begin with, so maybe that’s why I’m not all that concerned about it either.
I think the most important issue you have raised is that in a world of transparency and openness, it seems some of the platforms that we give so much to, are those that carry a shroud of secrecy.
Last, when we are using something that is for free, you know that there will be a price so those of us that opt-in should know what we are getting into to. But to have to opt-in to opt out or to have a profile created without the opt-in period is just bad on so many levels.
Thanks again for taking the time to make the post and such a great explanation of why you are choosing to delete.
@jkcallas thanks buddy! How is your Saturday??
@PamMktgNut going to apple another mac just passed on me :) but apart from that all is good! :)
Why I Deleted My Klout Profile http://t.co/SUp42meo | by @PamMktgNut via @arkarthick
Hey Pam,
I am the ceo here at Klout and think it’s important to address your concerns. (going to have to break this up into multiple comments to not exceed livefyre limits)
Privacy:
We love to show people interesting things about their online influence like who they influenced and are influenced by. We made a mistake in not thinking that people may be interacting with their kids and that could end up in Klout. This was us not thinking and being a bunch of data nerds not some plan to analyze minors. Within hours of realizing this a change was introduced to fix it. If we were doing anything to break Facebook terms of service or if Klout was in any way about showing off pictures of kids and exploiting minors we would be immediately shut down. We made a mistake here and take responsibility.
Hey Pam,
I am the ceo here at Klout and think it’s important to address your concerns. I am going to have to break this up into multiple comments unfortunately to work for livefyre.
First wanted to address inaccuracies, because your account is no longer in our db I can not diagnose what might have happened. We are working incredibly hard at always improving our systems though.
I am sorry to hear that you do not feel that Klout is of value to you or your clients. We are working hard and innovating fast here so I hope you keep an open mind as we evolve.
@JoeFernandez Joe, please tell me what I need to do / who I need to contact to get my Klout profile deleted completely? Thanks.
@JoeFernandez Why not just make it simple and use the opt-in process? That way you keep everyone happy – those that want to be part of your system are, and those that don’t aren’t.
Or would this impact too heavily on the numbers you quote channel partners to pay you for your “influencer connection”..?
@JoeFernandez Joe – thanks so much for stopping by to comment. I apologize I am just now responding. I have been dealing w/some major stomach issues/pains this weekend. My response may also be split into a few different comments too. Inaccuries – it’s a bummer that nobody wanted to help me the past few months. I sent several emails, tweets & more trying to help you help me” ;) I knew there had to be something wacky. It wasn’t until I disconnected Klout from Facebook that I noticed that Klout hadn’t accessed my FB data since the end of August?
Innovation is great and I know how difficult it can be managing and balancing goals of investors with biz and customer satisfaction. I think some added resources on the Klout support team could bring exponential return. My 2 cents ;)
Ignoring our biggest supporters
There are some things around communication I think we’ve done well and there is definitely some lessons learned. If you have ever tried to get support from Google, Facebook or other big companies I think you would appreciate the hard work that Megan and our support team do. Between @klout twitter account, email, facebook and other forms of communication we are getting nearly 1 million incoming pieces of communication (want to be clear that only a portion of those are questions/complaints) a month. We strive to provide the best service possible to our users and carefully track metrics around this to know where we need to improve. We continue to add resources to that team but the truth is that there are very few organizations wouldn’t struggle with our scale.
That said, we need to be way better in our product and communication around transparency. My blog post yesterday (http://corp.klout.com/blog/2011/11/understanding-the-klout-score-parti/) should have come much earlier but is the first step in what will be an ongoing process for us.
@JoeFernandez@klout I think communication is a key “opportunity” area for Klout. I know first hand as a CEO of a startup myself how difficult it is to juggle the demands. However, being one that eats, sleeps and breathes the social ecosystem I can tell you even a small but additional investment in support and comms for Klout is much needed. I think many of the issues could have been calmed very quick had there been solid communication.
When people can’t get basic answers to basic questions they start losing trust. When a new launch touts a message of transparency yet nobody is ready or willing to respond unless it’s a positive comment it doesn’t do good things for trust and patience.
On the blog post the day of launch there was even one guy who many including myself thought was with Klout but wasn’t.. He was making statements as if he worked for Klout. I don’t know 100% but my guess is more than half of his answers were wrong. So he was fueling the fire of folks who were only looking to be acknowledged and listened to. This was made worse by the fact that Klout didn’t show up to their own launch party on the blog. I know you were out of town and meganberry may have done the best she could.
I agree had the post you wrote yesterday (now 2 days ago) came out earlier it probably could have saved Klout a lot of headache.
Transparency is a strong word and to have meaning it must be carried through.
@JoeFernandez@klout (cont.) It’s water under the bridge now. The best thing to do in these situations is learn from mistakes, listen to your audience, current clients, past clients and move forward in a way that makes it better.
As I stated in my blog post there is obviously still a big gap in the industry for social influence measurement.
We are still in our infancy and someday we will all laugh how manual it still is and how archaic all of our measurement, following, and engagement tools are.
Klout has as good of chance as any at winning a seat at the influence table for the long term.
However, for that to happen I think there has to be a commitment to listen, communicate and change. Without all three of those I think the chances of success are minimized.
Feeling tricked into connecting networks that don’t affect your score:
We haven’t done a good job of making this clear so I am going to try my best here. Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Foursquare impact your score right now. There is a process of adding networks to the scoring algorithm. Most networks aren’t public the way Twitter is. In order to have enough data to build the models we need people to connect their accounts. From that point we beginning analyzing the network to determine how the algorithm should work for that network. This is a delicate process but once we are comfortable with our analysis the network is added to the overal scoring algorithm and at that point you score will be impacted by it. When adding Facebook, LinkedIn and Foursquare we went through this same process. People who add new networks during the modeling process will have increased scores right at launch while others may experience a backlog as they add the new networks.
@JoeFernandez If you’re only using four platforms to score, why are you promoting 13 on your site? Isn’t that false advertising?
@JoeFernandez This was a shocker for me when I found this out just a few days ago. I have read the blog posts, the announcements, studied Klout and never knew this. I connected every network you launched.
This is an area I do not believe Klout provided clarity and borderlines outright dishonesty. I see nothing mentioned on a future launch date, the fact the algorithms are being tested.
I don’t understand the decision to hide such information. Why not be honest? My guess is people would still have connected their accounts as they wanted you to succeed. I was one of them.
I think that is my greatest advice with these situations is not to underestimate the power and patience of your community when you are honest with them. I think that is why so many were happy to see the word “transparency.” I know when I saw your new algorithm launch included the word “transparency” I thought “great, they are finally going to GET REAL with us.” I think it’s why so many were disappointed when Klout was then MIA after launch.
Even with the issues, I think the more transparent and real Klout can be the better the chances of success, the higher chances you’ll eventually win back even the people who have left. I think you should come forward and be honest, share publicly that there are only 4 currently connected networks. It’s much better them hearing it from you than a random tweet stream.
Klout & Privacy:
We love to show people interesting things about their online influence like who they influenced and are influenced by. We made a mistake in not thinking that people may be interacting with their kids and that could end up in Klout. This was us not thinking and being a bunch of data nerds not some plan to analyze minors. Within hours of realizing this a change was introduced to fix it. If we were doing anything to break Facebook terms of service or if Klout was in any way about showing off pictures of kids and exploiting minors we would be immediately shut down. We made a mistake here and take responsibility.
@AlCastle great article, lot of thoughts , thank you for sharing that, you ever think you will go back, seems it is bigger in US then CAN
@ErinSaxtonJobin I never used Klout. From the get go, it made my spidey-sense tingle.
@AlCastle haha you should always listen to that sense
@ErinSaxtonJobin :) Well, my work here is done. Enjoy your day & remember, tell your friends #UnoccupyKlout
Klout & Privacy:
We love to show people interesting things about their online influence like who they influenced and are influenced by. We made a mistake by not thinking that people may be interacting with their kids and that could end up in Klout. Within hours of realizing this a change was introduced to fix it. If we were doing anything to break Facebook terms of service or if Klout was in any way about showing off pictures of kids and exploiting minors we would be immediately shut down. We made a mistake here and take responsibility.
@JoeFernandez I am glad to hear that Klout is taking responsibility for this and taking it seriously. I think it was an eye opener for many that Facebook didn’t also better control the sharing and identification of Facebook profile data of minors.
This was a key reason I had to delete my Klout profile. I could not assume the risk given the number of minors I am connected with via my Church and other children in our lives. Most of their parents would never be on Twitter let alone Klout. It’s the people who don’t live on the social networks I worry about because they have no clue that they or their kids may have a profile. What is the longer term strategy and roadmap for auto creating profiles? It doesn’t seem accurate nor ethical to auto create a score and profile based upon only partial data? I think an added opt-in vs opt-in to opt-out model is much needed. I honestly eat, sleep and breathe tweets and it was only just recently I realized this is how it worked.
@kathikruse are you going to nuke your Klout profile. I’m thinking about it. #smfire
@notagrouch After reading Pam’s post, I’m giving it some serious consideration. #smfire
Typo: “Not only did they have the exact same number of followers, following but the most shocking was that they had only sent two tweets ever.” I think that comma is probably misplaced.
Thanks for the thoughtful reflection on Klout. It is greatly appreciated.
— MrJM
@uzurilove @pammktgnut INTERESTING points!
Pam, Outstanding post!
Like many, I had great hopes for Klout. But, it seems they have become the poster boy for abusing a wonderful a great business concept (they are not the first). Bothers me even more that each time they are caught in less than fulsome disclosure, there is a quick apology and request that we forgive.
Please! How hard is it to hire a for real privacy advocate and give him or her real Klout to guide the company along an ethical course? Imagine the time saved apologizing when one just operates ethically.
FYI, I am using Klout as a case study, for some start-ups I am mentoring, in how not to oprate. At least I am getting some value out of this sad episode.
Pam, thanks for alerting your audience to this situation. Off to tweat to my audience about the service you have done with this post.
Excellent article, Pam. I, too, was very concerned about the privacy issues created by pulling minor influencers or influenced accounts from FB.
I don’t “get” Klout at all and here’s my example why.
Since late 2008, I have worked very hard to be engaging and provide caregivers and those in the health industry with good, credible information. I found out I had a Klout score of 64 – whatever, I thought; who is this @Klout anyway.
Then Klout introduced “transparency” and my Klout score dropped to 54. Hmmmm, oh well.
But the interesting thing is that I JUST began a new twitter account @socialmediabySW, have just 76 followers and my Klout score is 24??? How can that be? My other account has almost 9000 very targeted followers – THE most followers in my area of expertise…and that Klout score is decreasing daily.
I’m beginning to think that Klout was founded specifically to get advertisers to pay high sums to offer their perks.
Thank you so much for the information, Pam.
@sonicdork Great article! Thanks for sharing. Have passed it along. It’s important information.
@KikkiPlanet I realized something was up with Klout, but I didn’t know about the other bits and the 4 networks they measure.
@sonicdork The mere fact that 4sq is one of the metrics pisses me off. Why should people know where I am at all times to increase my score?
@KikkiPlanet Also, LinkedIn? C’mon. Klout was supposed to be fun. I have never thought “That’s hilarious. I should post it on LinkedIn”
@sonicdork And LinkedIn doesn’t qualify as interactive social media in my books. I don’t even use it. Klout has become one big sales pitch.
@sonicdork We’ve all been conned :-(
@KikkiPlanet @sonicdork 4sq is especially dangerous for single women and makes home robberies that much easier.
@ShelleyWebbRN @sonicdork An #EPS member on Twitter warned us of that weeks ago. At which point I stopped checking in on 4sq.
@ShelleyWebbRN @kikkiplanet same with the Facebook
@sonicdork @kikkiplanet true….if you check in, but I don’t.
This is the best article I have read so far on Klout as analysis of why it isn’t as accurate as some people think. However, I have a few problems with the analysis. For one, when people got mad about their scores dropping after the algorithm change: what if the first algorithm was wrong and the people weren’t ever as inluential as they thought? Should Klout keep the first algorithm and be wrong or switch to the second and make some of its proponents angry? This reminds me of paper millionaires who lost their stock fortunes and complaind when they lost something that, arguably, they never had. Furthermore, when the celebrity retweeted you and hundreds of people retweeted her, doesn’t that make the celebrity influential? Those hundreds of retweets would have never happened if she didn’t retweet you so you, in that case, influenced one person one time, who influences millions of people.
Honestly, the people I have seen upset about Klout are social media experts but it isn’t just for them. I am sure the teenager who was “exposed” by Klout would love to know that they may influence their favorite brand.
Unfortunately, for Klout, they are a small company that is building a business faster than they planned and probably gets a million emails a day. Pam, you get hundreds of mentions a day and I am sure it takes time to respond. However, Klout gets many more emails and they aren’t the size of large companies that can offer better service.
Fortunately for Klout, they created controversy among the social media mavens and got them talking. This allowed people who aren’t mavens to find a way to track how well they are doing. Klout is fun, it gives people something to do, and in my opinion they are trying their best.
At this point, no measure will be completely accurate. However, right now, Klout is simply the only decent measure.
@TylerWardIsBored I agree with you on most points. Even though there is not a lot of competition for Klout it doesn’t mean that we should tolerate some of the issues to date. At the end of the date it is a personal decision if you want to keep a public Klout profile or not. To bucket “social media mavens” who decide to delete their profile into one bucket I think is wrong. Yes, maybe some leave Klout because they aren’t happy with the new algorithm. There are also as many who are leaving because of the other issues, many that are listed here. You have valid points about the new algorithm and I am confident some people left because they didn’t like it. However, my key point on communication is even a little bit more communication from Klout could have minimized these issues. It’s a matter of adding one or two additional part time resources. There comes a point as a business that decisions must be made to maintain a certain level of customer service, communication and customer satisfaction. When people are sharing and trusting so much data in the hands of a 3rd party, without trust I think they are destined to fail.
You also have valid points about Allysa Milano having much more influence than me, yes that is true. However, it is still amplification, it is mentions. Any response from Klout would have been appreciated other than the blanket “you must not have as many influential people engaging with you.” Sorry, makes no sense to me. Why should it have made my score drop. Even without the tweet of Allysa I had several record blog posts over that 2 week period. Engagement, mentions and sharing were out the roof yet from there forward my score dropped.
Trust me though in that I did NOT delete my profile because of a score. As I mentioned in a prior comment my score was an 82 a month or so ago, had declined to a 79 and ended with a 60 with the new algorithm change. I am not one you should bucket into the mavens who got mad and left bucket. I am one who wanted and still would love to see Klout or whatever company is able to pull this off succeed.
Well….that will teach me to submit posts via the iPhone.
What I meant to say was (to the best of my recollection):
Excellent article, Pam.
I, too, was very concerned about the privacy issues created by pulling minors as influencers or influenced accounts from FB.
I don’t “get” Klout at all and here’s my example why.
Since 2008, I had worked very hard within Twitter to engage, to educate and pass along information in the eldercare, senior, and health arenas. I’ve NEVER made any “puppet” moves. One day I was told that my Klout score was 64 and that it was a good thing. Okay, whatever.
Then Klout introduced “transparency” and my Klout score dropped to 54. Hmmmm, oh well.
But the confusing thing is that I JUST opened a new account last week (@SocialMediaBySW), have just 76 followers and my Klout score is 24??? How can that be? My other account has almost 9000 very targeted followers – THE most followers in my area of expertise…and that Klout score is decreasing daily. That makes NO sense to me.
I’m beginning to think that Klout was founded specifically to get advertisers to pay high sums to offer their perks.
Thank you so much for the information, Pam
(now hopefully, this posts correctly.)
@ShelleyWebbRN Hi Shelley. Glad you liked the article. I wish I could answer your question about the 24 score on the account with only 76 followers. this is similar to some of the issues I shared with Klout as did many others yet we didn’t receive a response. There is something wacky going on with accounts with low number of followers. I am not certain but it appears to be in relation to the new amplification measurement and focus on accounts which engage, tweet, like less. I disagree with this model completely as just because someone only “likes” a couple times a day doesn’t make them more influential. My bet is if we did the 2nd tier data analysis we would find the opposite. If they’re not actively engaging themselves the chances of them having an engaged audience are slim. Particularly with Facebook and how the edgerank works with newsfeeds etc.
@JessicaNorthey @PamMktgNut – three…
@JessicaNorthey i thought you loved Klout…
Hey Pam – great post: it’s a great recap of many of the issues that have surfaced over the last 2-3 weeks. It’s nice to see @JoeFernandez and the Klout team begin the process of attempting to communicate more frequently and more transparently, but it’s going to take time and real changes & commitment to win back the trust of users like you and others who have made this move.
The truth is that influence measurement is something that most everyone who works in social media embraces as a concept and a goal. But it is very early days, and far too early for anyone to claim that they are a “standard.” If Klout was a little more honest about what we do know, what we don’t know, and what we’re all still learning about this area of the market, my guess is that many people would want to participate in that conversation in a productive way.
@tonia_ries@JoeFernandez Amen! I agree with you 100% Tonia. It’s what I mentioned in a reply comment to Joe. I think Klout somewhat underestimated the power of their community. Joe, I think you underestimated how much we wanted to help you succeed. However, given the lack of communication which led to doubt trust was lost.
There are still conversations to be had and I think the best thing Klout and any others who play in this space can do is to listen, communicate and change. We must move forward in a way that is better than where we have been.
I have been approached to kickoff an online radio show and am considering having the first topic be reputation management and influence. Tonia / Joe we should discuss how we can move this conversation forward to real life, voice and more.
Pam,@pammkgnut. I know you put a lot of thought into this. I am going to consider doing the same. Actually, I’ve been watching just to see what happens. It is not a good measure of social influence if you don’t have a high score! We only know each other thru SM, but I am impressed with your reach, quality of information and influence. If @Klout isn’t impressed, what does that say? Thanks for giving me something to seriously consider. Perhaps my time will be best spent avoiding @klout . In my consulting practice I have sung it’s praises. Since the changes, I have not.
@loiscreamer Like Pam, I deleted mine and I am so glad that I did. If you get “stuck” attempting to undo all your accounts, let me know and I will give you a link to Jure’s post which tells you exactly how to do it.
+1 RT @danperezfilms Why I Deleted My Klout Profile http://t.co/IGCa4fdZ via @PamMktgNut
Pam, aloha. Well done and thank you. Because I knew you were going to write this post I was looking forward to its arrival to be able to share it with others. Happily, I am now disconnected and have no Profile on Klout.
In hindsight, I am glad the “incident(s)” happened with Klout because I think it is most freeing for all of us. We see people back to engaging because they want to engage with that person rather than because they think that person will be beneficial to their score.
In my opinion, many people wasted countless hours on Klout attempting to game the system.
Even though I do not have children, I was appalled when I learned about Klout accessing that information. Klout has definitely taught me to be more careful in terms of which apps I give access to my accounts.
Thanks again, Pam. Wishing you and all the Nuts a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious weekend. Aloha. Janet
@janetcallaway Thanks Janet. I agree with you. Real engagement is key to biz and life.
I am a believer in the ability to measure influence and I think it will be a topic of debate for many years. While on one hand we want to measure influence, on the other we want to be real and have relationships that are started, nurtured and fostered based on terms that are authentic, not a score.
I think the big question is will it ever be possible for us to measure influence without questioning the real agenda of someone talking to us, retweeting us etc.? I doubt it. I think it’s why the real conversations, the tweet chats, meeting our online friends in real life and more becomes the ultimate measure of influence. I don’t think influence will ever be able to have a single score associated. It’s when people start to put too much belief in a number and let it change their behavior that things get crazy.
As I always say it’s how we impact the lives of those we touch both online and offline that matters the most.
You Janet, have touched my life since the first time you and @SteveCassady tweeted into #GetRealChat the first week we started it in Jan/Feb? I am blessed to know you and call you friend. Imagine if I had of only talked to you if you had score or had followers? I would have missed out on one of the most real and inspiring women I have met on Twitter. It would have been my loss. That is my worry when we put too much weight into influence scores. We can not let it influence our behavior or it alters more in life than a tweet.
Very very solid post Pam. Now go enjoy a well deserved weekend with family and friends because you earn it every week. And don’t worry, those of us who love to engage with you will be here Monday because #YouMatter. Cheers!
@BrandFlair Thanks buddy. I had to take some much needed downtime this weekend as I am dealing w/some stomach issues and major pains. Hoping it subsides soon. I’ll tell ya’ it did feel good to turn off and hug the rugrats all day.
@Fotomaf, 5 Favs! Your tweet has been favorited by 5 people. http://t.co/aU68m1AP
@PamMktgNut Great post! Thank you for sharing!
@sabrinagfadlun @pammktgnut @hilzfuld good morning
@kfirpravda morning make it awesome :) @pammktgnut @hilzfuld
I’d love to know how to delete my Klout profile… I already unauthorised the app that was linked to twitter yet it still shows a Klout score.
I actually find it offensive the way Klout just signs people up with no opt in or out option – particularly for minors, that’s pretty disgusting.
@BridiesTyping there’s a link to delete your profile at the bottom of this page: http://klout.com/#/edit-settings/optout.
@tonia_ries Yes but from what I’ve read elsewhere it doesn’t fully delete all the data. I want mine completely gone.
@BridiesTyping report back if you figure it out!
@BridiesTyping Did you figure it out?
@PamMktgNut Well, I deleted it, just have to wait and see if it’s really gone for good I guess. Fingers crossed…
I never signed for Klout and yet I see they have my profile already! A score of 24 (nevertheless, I never use them for metrics)
@emersonanomia o que tu acha sobre o kloutcidio ?
@tonafolga ainda é cedo, mas o Klout errou FEIO no novo algorítmo. Deve mudar em breve, senão implode. Acho q @rosana e @inagaki concordam.
@emersonanomia Tu sabe como funciona esse novo algoritimo ?
@MarkDonatelli I respect #klout for innovating in the social influencer space, and no one else is implementing it better today.
@daepar – agreed on #klout as an innovator and pioneer, just not sure if #privacy is being managed – could alienate audience in short term
I asked them several of the same questions and got very vague – almost condescending – answers (amounting to “silly girl, you couldn’t possibly understand what is going on…just trust us” ) For instance why did my score go UP on a day I was traveling and not on the networks, but go down when a heavy hitter retweeted me and I got a large amount of retweets and new follows from very engaged followers?
And why they say K+ don’t impact score when in fact it does. Indirectly. You are ranked based on K+s. People follow you and interact on certain topics based on your K+ ranking. So it does impact your score. AND KLOUT MANIPULATES THIS! I understand they limit how many K+s you can give, but they also manipulate who you can give to and how many you can give to an individual. That is wrong. They are impacting and influencing your score and that is just flat out wrong.
The other thing you didn’t mention was the Perks. Many of them are not perks at all…a $10 off coupon for junk with marked up prices and with shipping over $12 is not a perk. A link to join a website that anyone can join is not a perk. Its marketing disguised (poorly) as a perk. I resent this. I was a very early user of Klout. I enjoyed getting surprise perks once in a while and not being compared publicly to all my neighbors. It was discreet and felt professional. It has exploded into a mess of ratings, K+s and fake perks. It has turned people into “Klout whores” following and unfollowing exclusively to manipulate their score. People are creating multiple accounts to retweet and like! And asking other’s constantly to like and retweet with a knowing they will return the favor. Its all fake and manufactured.
I have read several blog articles about why to delete, I find yours the most informative to the Klout Pruduct (in other words ME!) It is an invalid measurement and no company should be relying on it.
@MomsThoughts Glad the article was useful for you. I agree with you on the K+’s and yes, it is one thing I didn’t address in this post. That’s another post all together and yes, it is a concern I have with Klout. It relates directly to the double agenda issues. I would love to see an influence measurement company that is not a social network. When engagement in the social network starts to impact people’s behavior which in turn impacts scored directly or indirectly, then in my book it’s a conflict of interest.
Yes, I have seen a lot of the fake accounts you mention. I even know one local peep who has a fake twitter account that is private. If you run a basic social listening report on their primary Twitter profile the fake, private account is the number one influencer. The worst part is this persons Klout score sits in the low to mid 50’s yet has a small audience, doesn’t provide any content of their own and the list goes on.
@markterry my thoughts…hmm not a whole bunch these days or ever really ever to be honest. not much for social measurement 4 people.
@JessicaNorthey if done properly I can see the point specially for brands who want to get closer to influencers which are people
How about they deleted forum questions from people who wanted to leave Klout this was months ago and they did their best to suppress conversations on their own support forums when people asked to leave. It was only after my blog and the subsequent online chasing of Joe Fernandez ( on SXSW forums ) that the issue got taken a little more seriously. However even after they deleted my profile I was still appearing in their APIs and it took months before they confirmed that I was utterly removed. The very fact that they would not let you go was enough of a reason for me to want out. I started this campaign in July of this year : http://loudmouthman.com/2011/08/16/lacking-in-klout/ Our new targets of Concern are Connect.me who despite my selecting “Delete Profile” have left my profile on their system and Given how others might “tag” me I am concerned again that this is another system that does not take a users wish seriously.
@loudmouthman Wow, I was not aware of that. I will check it out. I am a big believer in leaving community, forum, blog comments in tact. Usually people have something to hide when the delete game starts.
@TheFireTracker2 LOL! Good morning!
@WendiWorm And what’s our coffee of the day?
@TheFireTracker2 Having Chocolate Glazed Donut again…it is that kind of weekend ;)
@TheSupercargo Thanks, that was really interesting. I might follow her example … Have you deleated your #Klout account yet?
@KristinaHSvens Did it just now. I was hoping they would come back with answers to some of my questions – but not a peep.
Your article and the list of other articles makes this a great resource for understanding Klout and the recent changes. Thanks.
@linktrap thanks, very glad it helped :)
from the description (I’m no expert but…) identified.com does something similar on facebook, indexing you & all your connections. Anyone care to investigate?
@TriciaGroom Interesting. I haven’t heard of this service. Anyone else?
@neilbazza Woah, Woah, WOAH. It was you who goaded me into it. I want out.
My friend posted this blog by Pam Moore in a Facebook group we share. Below is my response. (actual Facebook comment)
“This lady is very bitter about her score dropping. Looking at her account, she obviously uses ReFollow or some type of “follow back” service. This is the reason for her score drop. ReFollow, when used incorrectly can create an audience of bots and non-engaged people. Anytime you see someone with 60k followers and 60k following, they are, in all likelihood, using refollow and their network influence is a big lie. Klout corrected this problem and people like Pam Moore had their score drop by 30-40%. Soon after, they start whining about Klout and the things they were doing wrong. All this in an effort to discredit the same company that 2 months ago presented them with a score they proudly presented to anyone who would look at it. Pam Moore will have us believe that she left Klout because of “privacy issues”. I don’t buy it. She left, because until now, Klout was helping her justify her “social importance” with a score she was proud of. As soon as they fine tune their algorithm, the score drops and the Pam Moores of the world start blasting them publicly.
As far as privacy goes…there is no such thing as privacy. If you use a credit card, shop at major store, have a bank account, use toll tag or ever bought anything online, your “privacy” was shattered a log time ago.”
Speaking of “privacy” in order for me to post a comment on this blog, I am forced to sign in with Twitter, Facebook, Linked In or create an account and deliver personal information. Privacy-Schmivacy
@AndyGonzalez If the Bronx Zoo Cobra can get a Klout score in the 80s within two days of being online, then something is not right with Klout’s algorithm.
@RussellSauve True Russell. @jckallas has a list of numerous spam accounts that have scores in the 60’s – 80’s. Something is not right. @AndyGonzalez
@AndyGonzalez Thx for your comment. However, your accusations are incorrect. You don’t know me. You don’t know how I tweet, follow, work with clients. I don’t owe you an explanation of how I follow or unfollow. You can see a light hearted blog post I wrote awhile back which summarized.https://www.pammarketingnut.com/2011/09/how-i-tweet-in-a-nutshell-55-behaviors-from-a-twitter-nut/ I will tell you I do not auto follow anyone without criteria in regard to number of followers, % of tweets with links, frequency of tweets and more. I do my best to auto drop those who do not engage or accounts that are spam.
If you knew me or knew of my work you would also know I have been encouraging people to consider Klout score as one of many measurements for months. This post “Forget Klout, What’s Your Social ZoomFactor” https://www.pammarketingnut.com/2011/08/forget-the-klout-score-whats-your-social-zoom-factor/ was written when I had a Klout score of 82 in the old algorithm. My score dropped just as many others did but was left at a 59 in the new algorithm so nothing to be ashamed of.
Your opinions on privacy are fine for you. Mine are different. I do not believe scraping Facebook and auto creating a profile of a minor is the same as giving your information to a credit card company as an adult.
I have friends who have been stalked, raped, abused and more from privacy related issues. It’s more serious than what some people seem to think.
I agree privacy as we know it is gone. Anything online is now public. However, if you read my post in it’s entirety you would see I am not referencing privacy in general. I specifically addressed the issues with minors and inability to opt-out in an efficient manner. There are also numerous spam accounts which have Klout scores in the 70’s and 80’s. @jkcallas has documented many of them.
@AndyGonzalez@jkcallas For the record since I told you my score in the post above I wanted to clarify it was an 82 at time of writing the post. After I got the Alyssa Milano retweet it dropped consistently daily until the new algorithm. Just before the algorithm change it was a 79 and then dropped to a 60 with the change. So sorry, your theory is wrong. My score was good. My post has zero to do with scores. It is 100% focused on accuracy, transparency, privacy and communication.
@PamMktgNut I owe you a public apology. The comment I copied from a Facebook response directed at my friend and pasted on your blog was a bit harsh. Please understand that I respect you and your community. While I do have my opinion on the reasoning behind your blog, I will say that my comment was poorly worded. It obviously upset you and I am sorry.
@AndyGonzalez Thank you Andy, I appreciate the apology but am curious why you deleted your comment? Why would you state such a bold, accusatory comment and then delete? Are you afraid the CEO of your agency, Speak Social would see it?
Hopefully you learned a lesson of making accusations of how anyone engages, manages their following unless you have first hand knowledge. You can’t assume to know and then cast judgement and state my entire post was written because I had a bad Klout score.
The truth is I had a good score and I also got tired of people wanting to talk to me only because of such. Even if it’s just temporary I am sure enjoying having NO score and knowing folks are engaging with me because they want to be, not because my Klout score says they should. I also need to add that @jureklepic and I talk frequently offline as well. We speak almost on a daily basis so yes, he is very educated on how I follow and how I don’t follow. He can tell you with accuracy I don’t use any blind auto follow tool and never will. I do appreciate your apology but am disappointed you deleted your comment. I am happy to paste it back on here from the email notification I received if you prefer?
I hope you will also correct your false statements and accusations in whatever Facebook group you stated them in.
@PamMktgNut Pam, I deleted my comment because I thought I expressed my opinion a bit to harshly and because it upset you . It was a gesture of apology, not worry. Also, why would any of my superiors care about my comment? It may have been harsh, but it was in good taste and I did not use any foul language. I find it funny that you would feel the need to throw this in my face in such a antagonistic manner. Especially after I apologized to you.
Good luck to you, Pam. We are all entitled to our opinions. I have mine and you have yours.
@AndyGonzalez It didn’t upset me Andy. I was simply replying to your accusations. Not being antagonistic, remember, you are the one who started the conversation on a negative tone with accusations. Now this is typical of when folks delete comments, as it makes the conversation look one sided as if others are picking fights with you when in reality you copied and pasted a comment that was quite negative & accusatory from a Facebook post where you had also left it.
I’m fine with any conversation and don’t get upset. I love a good debate and have many good friends both online and offline where the conversation has started with a debate. I am also a believer though of standing by what you state publicly versus deleting. I agree we all have opinions and are entitled to state them. I simply asked why you would state such a comment and delete. You work for a social media agency and I would guess you would know deletion of comments, particularly after people have responded is not usually a best practice.
@AndyGonzalez I thought this article was quite timely from Brian Solis on Computerworld.com. Some solid tips & best practices included. “Social media firestorms: A first responder’s guide http://t.co/DPPqpYEz cc: @jureklepic
@PamMktgNut
Oh, Pam. This is most definitely NOT a “firestorm”. I am not speaking for any “brand”. I am offering my own opinions in a professional manner. Could I have been nicer to you? Yes. Was I out of line, vulgar, offensive or aggressive? NO.
Before I deleted my comment I wrote: “I owe you a public apology. The comment I copied from a Facebook response directed at my friend and pasted on your blog was a bit harsh. Please understand that I respect you and your community. While I do have my opinion on the reasoning behind your blog, I will say that my comment was poorly worded. It obviously upset you and I am sorry.”
What part of that is me making a conversation look “one sided”? I admitted I was wrong. Did I not? It is clear that you are taking this very personally.
I DEFINITELY stand by my original statement. Klout has been the same company for the past year or so. Using the information they are provided the same way throughout their existence. I wonder, where was this blog of yours 6 months ago? What changed other than your score?
@AndyGonzalez No worries Andy. In summary, if “you DEFINITELY stand by your statement” then you should have let it stand vs delete, that’s all. My story and positioning hasn’t changed. This isn’t new. This is the same thing I have been saying for months publicly. If you read my blog or knew me you would know. Truth is you don’t know me, you don’t read my stuff but you communicate as if you do. Read my blog and the many posts where Klout is mentioned and you’ll see the truth vs. make it up.
We get your point. We can agree to disagree. Best of luck to you and your social adventures.
@PamMktgNut Best of luck to you too, Pam! :) Hope you have a wonderful week and holiday.
@AndyGonzalez Andy i am sorry to day but your accusations are wrong. First i can tell you that Pam is not using any auto follow, when i started following Pam took me nearly 3 weeks in order to be followed by Pam. She was engaging with me before following me back.
Whatever you are getting out of you Klout spin and trying to discredit Pam is probably highly motivated by the fact that you and Megan Barry are friends, connected on every platform and if to believe to Klout data at this point of time, Megan is one of your top influencer. So lets take biased out of the story.
What Pam exposed in her story is public knowledge that many of respected social media professionals are talking about it for long time.
As part and leaders of community is our obligation to talk about the things that are wrong, illegal and ethical incorrect. Pam is a leader of many communities and was her duty to explain to communities why she deleted the profile of Klout. If you would read her post more carefully she did explain that she is not attacking the Klout. She never complained about her score other then ask for explanation why such dramatic drop was in place. Klout failed to supply answer to it. Is well know and documented that Klout contradicts themself in many answers and theories.
i am wondering based on public info of your 530 users taht you follow appears that 17.5 % dont have anymore Klout profiles – they are disabled, did you went to them and accuse them of discrediting Klout as well ?
Facts are that Klout has been and is still deceptive to their users, or is simply on his way out.
@AndyGonzalez
Andy i am sorry but your accusations are wrong. First i can tell you that Pam is not using any auto follow, when i started following Pam took me nearly 3 weeks in order to be followed by Pam. She was engaging with me before following me back.
Whatever you are getting out of your Klout spin and trying to discredit Pam is probably highly motivated by the fact that you and Megan Barry are friends, connected on every platform and if to believe to Klout data at this point of time, Megan is one of your top influencer. So lets take biased out of the story.
What Pam exposed in her story is public knowledge that many of respected social media professionals are talking about it for long time.
As part and leaders of community is our obligation to talk about the things that are wrong, illegal and ethical incorrect. Pam is a leader of many communities and was her duty to explain to communities why she deleted the profile of Klout. If you would read her post more carefully she did explain that she is not attacking the Klout. She never complained about her score other then ask for explanation why such dramatic drop was in place. Klout failed to supply answer to it. Is well know and documented that Klout contradicts themself in many answers and theories.
i am wondering based on public info of your 530 users taht you follow appears that 17.5 % dont have anymore Klout profiles – they are disabled, did you went to them and accuse them of discrediting Klout as well ?
@jureklepic@AndyGonzalez 1. You have no personal knowledge of what Pam uses to create a followship. Therefore, you do not have the capability to, with any certainty, disprove my accusation.
2. Your second point is almost laughable. In an effort NOT to justify your absurd claim, I’ll only say that I would never be “bought’ is such a way and that beyond a few tweets here and there, I have no of affiliation with Klout.
@AndyGonzalez Andy for you info I know Pam well and exchange with her many emails and chats and even had discussion with her on following technique. So I do have clear knowledge of Pam’s followship.
As to point 2, yes it is laughable, but is Klout how made it laughable and this is the whole point where we should not believe in Klout data to be accurate. Just because you or someone else tweeted you or another person once or twice really doesn’t make a person as your key influencer. But if its to beleive to Klout data on your profile you are under influence of Megan, and i am not saying you are, i was just making case to you on how accurate their data really is.
@AndyGonzalez Andy, and if it’s to believe to Klout info, numbers of followers / connections had no impact on your score. Klout was alway maintain their claim that # of followers has nothing to do with their scoring, is the “action” that creates the Score.
Thanks for this detailed blog post. I have deleted my Klout account and revoked access from all my social media account. Your post has just reaffirmed my decision. Kudos!
@lauriebick Thanks for the RT!
I hear you! Check this out in response to Klout infactuation of some of my Eau de Klout – THe smell of Social :-) colleagues. http://simonphillips.com.au/the-scent-of-social
I hear you!! – Check out my response in regards to some of my colleagues infactuation with Klout score! Eau de Klout – ‘The smell of social” :-) http://simonphillips.com.au/the-scent-of-social
@hoeadrian @klout yup. Closed my account this morning.
@SMGKatz first check by adding your twitter name to domain .com/smgkatz then 2nd have someone who still has profile check!
@PamMktgNut you’re awesome–thanks! I’ve gotten behind in reading your blog. Gotta’ catch up!! A happy and meaningful Thanksgiving to you!
@SMGKatz http://t.co/U8TmxB51
Pam, I cannot figure out how to get to my comment to add to what you replied. I was not grouping you into any category in my post or suggesting you were jumping ship for the same reason as everyone else I called social media mavens. You clearly gave more than one reason that you deleted your Klout profile. All I was saying is that most people I see complaining about Klout are social media mavens. Everyone else seems to like it.
Also, in regards to companies like Facebook, Klout, and Twitter. We are users more than we are customers. In a way, we are the product that is being sold to advertisers.
I didn’t mean to comment on your own blog grouping you in any category. I hope Klout comes around and fixes their problems because I would love to see a measure of social influence that works the way it is supposed to. Furthermore, as I said before, I think that Klout is closer than any other company to do that in this stage of the game.
@TylerWardIsBored No worries Tyler. I know what you meant. I agree we are absolutely the product. The sad part is there are millions who have no clue. That’s what many of the social networks are bankin’ on. However, it is what it is. Business and communication as we know it is done and gone. Times are a changin’! I also agree that Klout WAS closer and had the greatest chance of success. However, there are many things I believe they need to work out to earn the trust. As I state in the blog post it’s a definite possibility. I believe how they execute in the next few weeks will dictate if they win or lose.
Great post, Pam. It was very educational. You’ve obviously done your due diligence before posting this. I’m interested to see what Klout has to say in response to your article.
Cheers,
Clément
@clementyeung Thanks Clement. Glad you liked it. Not sure if you saw but Joe Fernandez, CEO from Klout did respond yesterday.
@guidooohh @nanske sinds 8 november and counting :) http://t.co/Xu4kk215
Pam,
Great stuff! Love your thoughts here. And BTW, I was a big fan of Klout pre-change.
I think Klout may have done themselves in here. They had created an enviable position for themselves, as what seemed the default measure of social influence.
But, they have have proven what so many companies have before them… that they don’t “understand” social media.
Here are my thoughts on what they did not consider:
1 – Not Enough Explanation Before the Change – If they had done adequate change management, there would not have been the uproar and confusion post change.
2 – No Transparency – Klout claims to have a “magic” formula. The problem is secrets don’t play well in the social arena. Klout should have known this. As you discuss above, there does not seem to be any consistency to their methods.
3 – Waiting Too Long to Respond – Klout was way too slow to respond to their customers. (Yes, customers.) Some would argue that they have yet to adequately respond.
4 – Erasing the Past – Klout tried to erase the past. When users logged into to see their new scores, the history graphs did not even show what previously existed. Klout showed their new score going back in time, like nothing had ever happened.
Many of these are basic business principles… taken to the social arena.
Klout needs to regain the trust of the social world if they are to regain any of the Klout they had before. :)
@CompanyFounder Does this mean you are also considering deleting yours, Paul? Hmm… could start a domino effect!
Fantastic post, Pam. In reading the comments, I saw that someone asked how to delete the account. What I did was drop Jure’s great “how to” post in your comments section.
Hi, one small question. You wrote that Klout was not tracking your Facebook behaviour for more than 60 days. But how do you know that? Can one track this?
@nanske Yes, you can see such within the Facebook app settings. Klout also posted a blog post acknowledging there was a glitch.
@PamMktgNut@nanske Thanks! Found it :-)
@sheconsulting O.o could you repost the link to the Klout is lame article? It didn’t click through.
@sheconsulting ah-nm-my bad-the article posts fine.
@_kelvinlee I haven’t checked Klout in so long! Funny when people depend on it for marketing rather than just doing research
@Grayum_ian I can’t believe people are even thinking about using @klout as a metric.
@_kelvinlee in the very start, when it was only Twitter focused it was great. Now w/ all the other networks attached, its useless
@_kelvinlee She’s narcissistic as hell. I say stick with it for a while longer while they work the kinks out.
Great post Pam!
I have been thinking of pulling the same stunt myself. I think Klout has dropped the ball with their ‘upgrade’. They need to get their sheid together soon or it’s all over.
@_kelvinlee I bet that ‘martketing nut’ returns to Klout after finding out they fixed the FB bug. Both our scores have shot up today.
@mikulaja How did you miss it? :-p
@SixDegreesPGH Busy w work/tech/SEO things outside of that area I guess! Wow.
@mikulaja It took over Twitter for a week or so it seemed.
Love your post and your writing – while I am sticking with Klout for the time being – I can’t ignore the points you make here. I like the balanced passion you show – when I write my sarcastic remarks on Groupon and Google * I wish I could balance them as well as you do – will definitely start following you – wish there was a current reliable standard of measurement available that would track this decision.
@famia @klout @pammktgnut @mistygirlph @2morrowknight @sheconsulting Thanks for the RT, Famia! :) #gratitude
@sheconsulting @klout @pammktgnut @mistygirlph @2morrowknight Hi Esta! Thx 4 the RT’s abt klout! I’m really dissatisfied w/the “new” klout!
@TheSupercargo Wow – she did a thorough job explaining. I don’t take klout 2 seriously. But privacy stuff is worrying.
@DougSerton thanks – great info
@SuziMcCoyGMG I think @PamMktgNut is right on with her analysis of Klout however for now I am not deleting my profile
If you have time, @dmscott, I was wondering what you think are the best ways to SEO content?
What I don’t like about Klout is if I go offline for about 2-3 days because I actually have a life or have to do client work, my score drops. When I reached 60, it was because I was sending hundreds of tweets a day. My Klout score has since dropped to 48 and that’s because I’ve had other demands on my time.
Did you know that Google+ is now one of the ‘official’ components of the score?
@amandertising why didn’t you ask me? My #klout score is way higher than Erica’s. @brittenwolf @EricaRS @sjhalestorm @smclincoln
Sorry @PetersonDerek – not enough characters. Clearly you’re king. P.S what’s the story on that pic? @brittenwolf @ericars @sjhalestorm
@amandertising my profile pic? Just doing some male modeling on the side & @brittenwolf & @sjhalestorm decided to make a mobile out of it.
@PetersonDerek classy. @brittenwolf @sjhalestorm
@amandertising @brittenwolf @ericars @petersonderek Disagree… I don’t necessarily like Klout, but I’m not a big enough deal to hate it :)
@sjhalestorm good point. I agree with you. @brittenwolf @ericars @petersonderek
I continuously happen upon it and keep thinking it’s awesome but never saving it. See you next time! Keep posting us with these great writings!
I really don’t pay to much attention to the Klout score but since I have read this post I know I will not be signing up right now with Klout. This was a very enlightening article.
@dmscott thanks for the RT goodness! I have always been a fan of your work. I have shared your book w/many clients!
@brasonja @pammktgnut Great article – thanks for the share! Why I Deleted My #Klout Profile http://t.co/HSfmV54w via @pammktgnut68
[…] Why I Deleted My Klout Score […]
[…] CLICK HERE for more Klout details from one marketing blogger’s point of view. In addition, here’s another link that includes more about the Facebook issues and Klout. This information is important to know if you have an active profile on Klout. […]
@glenn_ferrell We’d love to have you take a look at PROskore. Here’s some recent coverage to give you some insight: http://t.co/BrqWGywy
@dru4u @MMMMeenal do it. Repeat after me “I am not a number”
@ShotbyRobins @dru4u oh man, I was so busy yesterday I couldn’t even read the article properly! #mustdotoday
@glenn_ferrell Thx for sharing! Have a gr8 week ahead :)
[…] Klout. Glad I never signed up for it. Pam the Marketing Nut tells Why I Deleted My Klout Profile. https://www.pammarketingnut.com/2011/11/why-i-deleted-my-klout-profile/ (And Pam’s not really a nut. She’s crazy like a fox when it comes to online […]
Gràcies!! @srsolano vaja tela!!! veig però que tu encara tens klout! ;O))
@MunBau el mantinc perque no em molesta però ja no li faig ni cas :P
@dave_carpenter See Why You Should Boycott Klout Now http://t.co/c5S1aS0V @socialmedia2day
@3rdWAVElands why is there a right or wrong answer? It’s a personal choice, right?
When I tweeted the same concerns about Klout, there was a deafening silence…
My main concern is that giving Klout your password for Google+/Blogger/Youtube, gives them your Google account, and the gap to identity theft is so small.
I think the social media apps that want to connect to each other through APIs should provide separate passwords to do so, from the info-providing side.
* On our internal network, we all have these roles (admin/owner/user/everyone), with well-defined acess rights.
* Once we go outside on the Web, we just give any stranger our admin passwords ????
http://twitter.com/#!/strooom/status/143011758456586242
This issue I have with this is the complete lack of honesty and transparency coming from Klout. At almost every juncture, Klout chooses obfuscation and dishonesty, rather than transparency and good citizenship.
@PamMktgNut Did the same. Cited your research. Good stuff.
@adampopescu @PamMktgNut Intrigued by #Klout in beginning, but found it too manipulative & a time waste.
#kloutchat ides RT @michaelgalvin01 @adampopescu @PamMktgNut Intrigued by #Klout in beginning, but found it too manipulative & a time waste.
I think the social media apps that want to connect to each other through APIs should provide separate passwords to do so, from the info-providing side.I really like the concept of this post and I feel that this is a very unique and rare information that you have managed to compile.
@LeoWid follow back?
[…] 7. Why I Deleted My Klout Profile […]
@tedcoine @pammktgnut I don’t understand that whole klout stuff but I think I have ‘klout’ with the ppl who matter. :o)
This has given me a great deal to think about.
I have a joke / but also quite a serious twitter account.
When I first checked, my none serious twitter ranked much higher than my serious twitter and by any sense of logic it should not have done.
I also have a very concern over the privacy issues on social media platforms as a whole, which is why I’ve more connections on LinkedIn than Facebook. I trust LinkedIn fully.
Pam one last point, I found you because I was reading Frank’s answers on twitter, at the time when he used to hate it. I now note that he is using it.
@ManWifeDog thank you for sharing the Klout article by @pammktgnut. @pammktgnut: it was a PHENOMENAL article!!!
Lot of things to think about. An Eye opener article. I really agree with the privacy for minors, specifically. Thanks, Pam for sharing this and bringing this to our notice.
@PamMktgNut totally agree plus I have several other issues with their lack of true measurement principles-thx for posting your thoughts
@DannyBirns Well Now i honestly don’t know what to think. Maybe soon we’ll have some real clarification about klout.
@laurapcd1 i cant believe your still up…
@SolomonCapistra i have to stop i just took ambien on board and always bad can you help me trend #WorldWideStrike #WorldWideGA #occupychi
@laurapcd1 the only thing trending is your face hitting the pillow. Night hun.
@soniadiez @lasblogenpunto el mío es como una montaña rusa… aunque hoy sube sin duda por el día de los inocentes! Yo no lo borraría
@PamMktgNut absorbing your klout post. hope they also pay attention.
Thank you Pam,
You’ve condensed down all my frustration into one article and added some veriable facts to what it felt like.
Great article, I’d like to believe it gets read by klout and acted on; I still would like a influence measure – but one I can trust.
I live to Klout.
@JansenJackBeard ahh ok – glad you’re okay, was just worried about you.
I personally see klout useful for the topics and people giving +Ks on those topics. I don’t care too much about the score #credibility
I hear you loud and clear.With all the hype, I tested it and quickly opted out. It was obviously inaccurate and unfair and way too arbitrary. If one needs to have a grade, use Twitter Grade.
Thanks for a really clear article in pointing out the limitations and consistencies in Klout. I didn’t realise how few networks impact your score.
The key thing with Klout is it isn’t clear what it actually measures – it claims to measure influence, but I don’t think it does.
Eg Justin Bieber is more “Influential” than Barack Obama. To a millions teenage girls he might be, but does it matter to the world? Tools like this need to be able to be weighted according to what the user is valuing and focussing on. I know kred is aiming to acheive this more.
I think these things still measure something closer to popularity than influence!
[…] Pam Moore: Why I Deleted My Klout Profile […]
I just set up my Klout profile and my score is being computed as I type this. I’m doing it as an experiment. I have two self-hosted WordPress blogs, but those don’t count and I can’t link to them. If I had a blog hosted on WordPress rather than my own domain name, that would count and I could link that account. So having my own domains doesn’t factor into how much “klout” I have? Stoooopid.
Hi Pam, We are connected on Twitter. To start I know almost nothing about Klout other than i have 3 Twitter accounts and I have 3 different Klout scores. I feel your frustration. Here are the points I would like you to consider. Of course these are my opinions and opinions are like $#$# everyone has one. LOL
1. The Emperor has no clothes
2. Anything you put on the Internet is fair game for anyone
3. There is no privacy get over it
4. Some companies are better marketers than others
5. Klout is more reliably measured by Forbes
6 Klouut is measured by money
7. Klout is measured by # of employess
8. Klout is measured by passing a tax law that only benefits your company
9. Klout is measured by the individual # of people who’s lives you make better.
10. Consider: Mother Teresa had Klout
In summary, you have Klout in direct proportion to the number of lives you impact in a positive way. Bottom line, it’s all about service to the community at large. Consider switching to wefollow.com
3…
A dulcet article will broaden one’s horizon because the article is true, make us move and laugh. When I saw this article, I consider I can harvest these….
It’s under “beta” for a reason.
I set up two Klout accounts. One in my real name and one in another name I often use on social networks. I thought this would give me a good idea how the two compared socially.
Although both accounts were set up separately with different email addresses AND I didn’t link the same social networks in each account, Klout somehow linked the two accounts so that I could see my real name statistics, real name and Facebook profile photo inside of the account screen for the other name, which had my Twitter profile username and photo. Every other setting in the open account was for my other name and not my real name, but I could still see all of my real name statistics and information on one screen within the account.
I opted out immediately. At this point, I’m also going to take someone else’s advice and email them about this issue.
[…] that Klout was delivering on it’s value proposition. In fact, there was some pretty loud criticism of Klout, in regard privacy concerns and algorithmic messiness in 2011. CNN Money contributor John Scalizy […]
[…] though Klout has weathered its fair share of criticism from marketers, tech enthusiasts and the broader media over the past 6 years, news of the reported acquisition is […]
So two years later do you still feel the same?